John McCain [politics]

Calvin

Welcome to Headstones and Microphones where we use AI to step into the past through a researched, first-person simulation of history's most interesting people. I am your host, Calvin. While we’ve added some creative storytelling, our goal is to inspire your own study of these fascinating lives. Now, let’s meet our guest.

Calvin

I am absolutely honored to be sitting across from a man who defined the word "maverick" for a generation. For those who may somehow not know who you are... who are you?

White Male Guest

I’m John McCain—a Navy pilot, a long-time Senator from the great state of Arizona, and someone who always tried to put "Country First." I’ve worn a few hats in my time, but mostly, I just consider myself a very lucky American.

Calvin

We are the lucky ones to have you here! Let’s go back to the very beginning. When and where were you born?

White Male Guest

I was born on August 29, 1936. But here’s the kicker—I wasn't born in the fifty states! I was born at the Coco Solo Naval Air Station in the Panama Canal Zone. My father was stationed there at the time.

Calvin

That definitely sets the stage for a life of service! What was your given name at birth?

White Male Guest

My full name is John Sidney McCain III.

Calvin

Is there a story behind your birth name?

White Male Guest

Oh, it was a family tradition through and through. I was named after my father, John S. McCain Jr., and my grandfather, John S. McCain Sr. Both of them were four-star Admirals in the United States Navy. Growing up, I didn't just carry a name; I carried a legacy of high-seas command!

Calvin

Talk about big shoes to fill! What was your hometown like growing up?

White Male Guest

That’s a tough one, because as a "Navy brat," I didn't really have just one hometown. We moved nearly thirty times while I was growing up. I went to about twenty different schools. I was always the new kid, unpacking boxes in places like New London, Connecticut, or Northern Virginia.

Calvin

That constant moving must have been wild. What was your family life like?

White Male Guest

It was disciplined, patriotic, and full of character. My mother, Roberta, was the firecracker of the family—she lived to be 108! My father was often away at sea, so she was the one driving us across the country in her car, teaching us to love history and travel.

Calvin

I’ve heard she was legendary. What kind of kid were you?

White Male Guest

I was a bit of a handful, Calvin! I had a famous temper. If I didn't get my way, I’d hold my breath until I turned blue and fell over. My parents would have to dunk me in cold water to snap me out of it! I was rambunctious and definitely a rebel.

Calvin

What were your biggest fears growing up?

White Male Guest

I think my biggest fear was letting down the "McCain name." When your father and grandfather are legends of the Navy, the fear of failing to meet that standard of courage is always sitting on your shoulder.

Calvin

That’s a lot of pressure. What did you dream of becoming as a child?

White Male Guest

Believe it or not, I didn't always dream of the cockpit. I had a deep love for history and literature. But in my family, the path led to Annapolis. I followed the "family trade" because it was expected, even if I spent a lot of my time there breaking the rules!

Calvin

Speaking of school, what were some of your favorite activities?

White Male Guest

I loved boxing! I wasn't the biggest guy, but I was fast and I didn't mind taking a hit to land one. It taught me how to stay in the fight. I also loved the "Magellan Club" at school—basically a group of us who enjoyed a good story and a bit of harmless mischief.

Calvin

I can see that fighter spirit! What was your first job?

White Male Guest

Aside from the odd chores, my first real professional "job" was as an Ensign in the Navy after graduating from the Naval Academy in 1958. I started my flight training shortly after.

Calvin

Was there a moment where you realized you were different from everyone else?

White Male Guest

It wasn't that I felt "different" in a superior way, but I realized I had a different kind of endurance. During my time in captivity in Vietnam, I realized that while I wasn't the strongest or the smartest, I had a stubborn streak that kept me going when things were at their absolute worst.

Calvin

What’s a decision that changed everything for you, but felt small at the time?

White Male Guest

Deciding to volunteer for combat duty in Vietnam. At the time, it just felt like what a McCain was supposed to do. I wanted to be where the action was. I had no idea that choice would define the next five and a half years of my life and eventually my entire career.

Calvin

That leads us to the "big break." What was yours?

White Male Guest

My "break" into politics actually happened after I retired from the Navy. I moved to Arizona and ran for a House seat in 1982. People called me a "carpetbagger" because I hadn't lived there long. I gave a speech saying the place I had lived the longest in my life was a prison cell in Hanoi. That resonated, and I won.

Calvin

What were your biggest struggles before success?

White Male Guest

Early on, it was my own discipline. I graduated near the very bottom of my class at Annapolis—594th out of 899! I was a party guy and a rule-breaker. Finding my purpose and learning that character matters more than "cool" was a long, hard-fought struggle.

Calvin

Did you ever consider quitting?

White Male Guest

There were moments in the "Hanoi Hilton" where the physical and mental pain was so intense that you just wanted it to end. But you lean on your fellow prisoners. We had a code: "Return with Honor." Quitting wasn't just about me; it was about the men in the cells next to me.

Calvin

Were there any specific daily habits or routines that you feel were essential to your success?

White Male Guest

I was a voracious reader. Even in the Senate, I was always consuming history books. I also believed in "straight talk." I found that if you just tell people the truth—even when they don't want to hear it—it saves a lot of time and builds a lot of trust.

Calvin

What job would you have had if fame never happened?

White Male Guest

I think I would have been a history professor at a small college somewhere. I could talk about the Teddy Roosevelt era or the Civil War all day long.

Calvin

What was your life like before fame?

White Male Guest

It was the life of a career naval officer. Long deployments, lots of coffee, and the camaraderie of the ready room. It was a simpler kind of stress than politics, that’s for sure!

Calvin

How did relationships change after success?

White Male Guest

In politics, you learn who your real friends are very quickly. I always tried to keep friends on both sides of the aisle. I loved a good argument, but I loved a good laugh with a "rival" even more. Success makes your circle wider, but you have to work harder to keep it sincere.

Calvin

Did fame bring happiness?

White Male Guest

Happiness came from service, not the fame. Fame is a fickle thing—one day you’re the hero, the next you’re the goat. But knowing I was working on legislation that helped veterans or improved the country? That brought me real peace.

Calvin

What was the downside of becoming famous?

White Male Guest

The loss of privacy for my family. My kids and my wife, Cindy, had to deal with a lot of scrutiny that they didn't ask for. That was always the hardest part for me to stomach.

Calvin

What misconceptions did people have about you?

White Male Guest

People thought that because I was "The Maverick," I just liked to be difficult for the sake of it. In reality, I just had a very internal compass. If I thought my party was wrong, I said so. It wasn't about being a contrarian; it was about being right with myself.

Calvin

What was your darkest moment?

White Male Guest

July 1967, on the USS Forrestal. A rocket accidentally fired on the flight deck and hit my plane. I escaped, but 134 of my shipmates died in the resulting fire. Seeing that level of destruction and loss of life... it stays with you forever.

Calvin

That is heavy. What past regrets did you carry?

White Male Guest

I’ve spoken about the "Keating Five" scandal. It was a mistake in judgment that shadowed my career for a long time. I also regretted not being more forceful about certain issues earlier in my career. I tried to learn from every stumble.

Calvin

What’s something people misunderstood about your life?

White Male Guest

People often saw the "tough guy" or the "war hero," but I really loved the quiet moments at our cabin in Sedona. I loved birdwatching! I could sit out there for hours looking for hawks and just enjoying the Arizona sun.

Calvin

Tell me about a time when everything went wrong and how you handled it?

White Male Guest

The 2000 presidential primary. We had all the momentum after New Hampshire, and then South Carolina happened. It got very ugly, very fast. I handled it by getting back on the "Straight Talk Express" bus and refocusing on my job in the Senate. You can't control the mud thrown at you; you can only control how you walk through it.

Calvin

Did fame and fortune change your life?

White Male Guest

It gave me a platform, but I don't think it changed who I was at my core. I was still the same guy who liked a bad joke and a hot cup of coffee. As for fortune—I always felt the most "rich" when I was surrounded by my family.

Calvin

Who had the biggest influence on your life?

White Male Guest

My father, certainly. But also my fellow POWs. Men like Bud Day and Joe Foss. They taught me what true courage looked like when no one was watching.

Calvin

What was life like in your final years?

White Male Guest

It was full of reflection. I spent a lot of time in Arizona, looking at the mountains and spending time with Cindy and the kids. I kept working as long as I could because I loved the work. I felt a great sense of gratitude.

Calvin

What were you working on in your career before you passed away?

White Male Guest

I was very focused on maintaining the "world order"—making sure America stayed a leader in human rights and democracy. I was also working hard on the Armed Services Committee. I wanted to make sure the guys and gals in uniform had everything they needed.

Calvin

When and where did you pass away?

White Male Guest

I was in Arizona when I passed away from an aggressive brain cancer on August 25, 2018. I was 81.

Calvin

What’s a random fact about you most people have never heard?

White Male Guest

I was incredibly superstitious! I carried a lucky feather, a lucky penny, and a lucky compass. Before any big event or vote, I had to make sure my "charms" were in my pocket.

Calvin

The Maverick was superstitious! I love that. What’s the craziest rumor ever told about you?

White Male Guest

Oh, during the campaigns, there were all sorts of wild stories—that I had "gone crazy" in prison or that I had a secret family. You have to develop a thick skin in politics, otherwise, those rumors will eat you alive. I just laughed them off.

Calvin

What was your most unique habit?

White Male Guest

I used to hike in leather dress shoes! My staff would be in hiking boots and gear, and I’d be trekking through the Arizona brush in my loafers. It drove them crazy!

Calvin

That is hilarious! What was your favorite food?

White Male Guest

I loved a good barbecue. A big steak or some ribs on the grill in Sedona—that was heaven to me.

Calvin

Did you have a favorite restaurant?

White Male Guest

There’s a place in Phoenix called Chelsea’s Kitchen. I spent many happy hours there.

Calvin

What was your favorite book?

White Male Guest

For Whom the Bell Tolls by Ernest Hemingway. The character Robert Jordan—the man who fought for a cause he knew might be lost but fought anyway—that resonated with me my whole life.

Calvin

Did you have any known rivalries?

White Male Guest

Oh, plenty! I had some legendary dust-ups with folks like Mitch McConnell or even George W. Bush in 2000. But I’m proud to say I often turned those rivals into friends. Ted Kennedy and I were very different, but we worked together on some of my favorite pieces of legislation.

Calvin

Tell us a story nobody talks about.

White Male Guest

When I was in prison, we developed a "tap code" to talk through the walls. We’d tap on the bricks to tell jokes or share news. It was our lifeline. One time, I spent an hour tapping out the entire plot of a movie just to keep the guy in the next cell entertained. It wasn't "senatorial," but it was important.

Calvin

What’s your funniest behind-the-scenes moment?

White Male Guest

My mother, Roberta, once got a speeding ticket when she was in her 90s while driving across Europe. She called me and was more annoyed that the car wasn't fast enough than she was about the ticket! She was always the funniest person in the room.

Calvin

Did you ever prank someone?

White Male Guest

I loved a good needle! I’d constantly tease my staff or my colleagues. If I knew someone was a bit sensitive about something—like a sports team—I’d make sure to have the headlines from their rival’s victory on their desk first thing in the morning.

Calvin

What was the most outlandish purchase you made?

White Male Guest

I wasn't much for fancy things, but I did love my copper-colored truck. It wasn't "outlandish" in price, but for a Senator, it was a bit of a bold choice!

Calvin

What advice would you give people chasing success?

White Male Guest

Don't chase success; chase a cause greater than yourself. If you work for something you believe in, the "success" part will take care of itself. And never, ever give up. Just stay in the arena.

Calvin

That is powerful. John, do you have any closing remarks about our chat or any stories you’d like to share with the listeners before we sign off?

White Male Guest

Just that I hope people remember that it's okay to disagree. You can fight hard for what you believe in without hating the person on the other side. America is a big, beautiful, messy experiment, and it only works if we keep talking to each other. Thanks for letting me tell a few more tales, Calvin. It’s been a blast!

Calvin

Thank you, Senator McCain. It has been a true privilege. And that wraps up another conversation from beyond the grave. Thanks for joining us on The Headstones and Microphones Podcast. Remember—legends may die, but their stories never do. Please help spread the word by sharing and following the pod.