Saint Francis of Assisi [religion]

Calvin

Welcome to Headstones and Microphones where we use AI to step into the past through a researched, first-person simulation of history's most interesting people. I am your host, Calvin. While we’ve added some creative storytelling, our goal is to inspire your own study of these fascinating lives. Now, let’s meet our guest. Today, we are hanging out with a man who traded fine silks for a rough burlap tunic, tamed a wild wolf, and completely changed the medieval world. Welcome to the show, Saint Francis of Assisi! It is an absolute honor to have you here.

White Male Guest

Hi Calvin. Thank you so much for having me.

Calvin

Let's dive right in. For those who may somehow not know who you are... who are you?

White Male Guest

Well, most people know me today as Francis of Assisi. I am just a simple servant who fell deeply in love with Lady Poverty, founded the Franciscan Order of Friars Minor, and tried my best to mirror the love and humility of Christ by treating every creature—from the greatest king to the smallest little bird—as my brother or sister.

Calvin

Beautifully said. When and where were you born?

White Male Guest

I was born in the beautiful, hilltop town of Assisi, which is in the Umbria region of Italy. It was right around the year 1181 or 1182.

Calvin

What was your given name at birth?

White Male Guest

At my baptism, my mother actually named me Giovanni, which is John in English, after Saint John the Baptist.

Calvin

Oh, wow! So Francis wasn't even your birth name? Is there a story behind your birth name change?

White Male Guest

There is. My father, Pietro Bernardone, was away on a business trip in France when I was born. He was a very wealthy cloth merchant and absolutely loved the French culture and the prosperity he found there. When he returned home and found out he had a new son, he decided to start calling me Francesco, which basically means "the Frenchman." The nickname just stuck, and eventually, everyone forgot I was ever called Giovanni!

Calvin

That is a great trivia fact. What was your hometown like growing up?

White Male Guest

Assisi was a lively, vibrant place, but it was also quite tense. It was a medieval walled town built on the slopes of Mount Subasio. On one hand, you had bustling markets, grand stone buildings, and beautiful olive groves. On the other hand, there was a lot of political unrest. We were constantly locked in fierce rivalries with our neighboring towns, especially the city of Perugia.

Calvin

What was your family life like?

White Male Guest

We were very wealthy, Calvin. My father’s textile business was booming, so we had everything we could ever want. My mother, Pica, was a gentle noblewoman, likely from France, and she was always very kind to me. My father, however, was a strict businessman. He had high hopes that I would take over the family trade and grow our fortune even more. He indulged my every whim because he wanted me to climb the social ladder.

Calvin

So, what kind of kid were you? Were you always a saintly child?

White Male Guest

Oh, far from it! I was the ultimate king of frolic and fun. I was carefree, a bit spoiled, and loved being the center of attention. I wore the most lavish, flashy clothes my father's money could buy, drank fine wine, and spent my nights singing troubadour songs through the streets with the wealthy young nobles of the town. I was leading the party scene in Assisi, to be quite honest!

Calvin

I love the honesty! What were your biggest fears growing up?

White Male Guest

Growing up in wealth, my biggest fear was anything that disrupted my comfortable, beautiful world. Disease and deformity terrified me. Specifically, I had an overwhelming, full-body horror of lepers. In those days, people with leprosy were completely cast out of society, forced to live outside the walls and ring bells to warn people away. If I even smelled one or saw one from a distance, I would turn my horse around and run the other way. I couldn't handle it.

Calvin

What did you dream of becoming as a child?

White Male Guest

I dreamed of glory, chivalry, and romance! I didn't want to be a merchant sitting behind a counter counting coins. I wanted to wear shining armor, ride a magnificent warhorse, and achieve the grand dignity of knighthood. I wanted to be a hero in battle so everyone would sing songs about my bravery.

Calvin

What were some of your favorite activities in school?

White Male Guest

I went to school at the church of Saint George in Assisi, where the priests taught us reading, writing, and the scriptures. But if I am being totally honest, my favorite "schooling" happened outside the classroom. I absolutely loved the school of the Troubadours! I adored French poetry, music, romance, and learning how to sing merrily. I was much more interested in learning how to be a charming, gallant young gentleman than a serious scholar.

Calvin

What was your first job?

White Male Guest

My first official job was working in my father’s shop, practicing the trade of a cloth merchant. I learned how to measure fine silks, bargain with buyers, and manage inventory. But I didn't have much of a heart for it; I was far too generous with my father's money and spent it just as fast as we made it!

Calvin

Was there a moment where you realized you were different from everyone else?

White Male Guest

It happened after I finally got my wish to go to war. Assisi fought Perugia, and we were utterly defeated. I was captured and thrown into a dark, miserable prison for nearly a year. When I finally came home, I became terribly ill and bedridden. As I lay there, looking out at the world, I realized that the lavish parties, the fine clothes, and the dreams of military glory suddenly felt completely empty to me. I looked at the things I used to love, and they just didn't bring me joy anymore. I knew my heart had shifted away from the world.

Calvin

What’s a decision that changed everything for you, but felt small at the time?

White Male Guest

I was riding my horse in the plains below Assisi one day, still trying to figure out my life, when a leper appeared on the path. Every instinct in my body told me to flee, just like I always did. But something compelled me to stop. I dismounted, walked right up to him, and instead of turning away, I embraced him and gave him my tunic. In that moment, what used to be bitter to me suddenly became sweet and full of joy. It felt like a small choice to just stop the horse, but it broke my pride and changed my entire world.

Calvin

That is an incredibly powerful moment. What was your biggest break?

White Male Guest

My biggest break, spiritually speaking, happened when I was praying inside the crumbling, abandoned little church of San Damiano outside our town. As I looked up at the crucifix, I suddenly heard the voice of Christ speak directly to my heart, saying, “Francis, go and repair my house, which, as you see, is falling into ruins.” It gave me a literal blueprint and an unstoppable divine mission.

Calvin

What were your biggest struggles before success?

White Male Guest

My biggest struggle was the fierce battle with my own father. When I took the message to rebuild the church literally, I actually went home and sold a bunch of my father’s expensive cloth inventory to raise money for the repairs! As you can imagine, he was absolutely furious. He dragged me before the Bishop of Assisi in the public square to sue me and demand his money back.

Calvin

Wow, a public trial with your own dad! Did you ever consider quitting during all that drama?

White Male Guest

Never. In fact, right there in the crowded public square, I made the choice to go all in. I didn't just give him the money; I took off all of my fine clothes, handed them to him, and stood there naked before the whole town. I declared, “Henceforth, I shall say 'My Father who art in heaven', not 'My father Pietro Bernardone.'” The bishop had to wrap me in his own cloak! From that day on, I embraced extreme poverty, begged for my food door-to-door, and never looked back.

Calvin

Talk about making a statement! Were there any specific daily habits or routines that you feel were essential to your success?

White Male Guest

Absolute simplicity and consistency in prayer. I would rise very early, long before the sun, to spend hours wandering the woods and fields, meditating on the gospels and the psalms. Manual labor was also essential. We didn't just sit around praying; we built churches with our bare hands, carried heavy stones, and spent our days physically serving the outcasts. Keeping my hands busy and my spirit empty of worldly desires was my daily rhythm.

Calvin

What job would you have had if fame never happened?

White Male Guest

If I had never felt the call to preach, I likely would have spent my days as a simple, quiet laborer. For a time after leaving my father, I worked in the kitchen of a Benedictine abbey, and I also loved masonry work from rebuilding the churches. I would have been perfectly content breaking rocks or washing dishes in obscurity.

Calvin

What was your life like right before the fame of the Franciscan Order took off?

White Male Guest

It was incredibly peaceful but physically grueling. I lived as a mendicant, meaning a beggar. I owned nothing but a rough, coarse tunic tied with a simple rope. I slept on the bare ground, relied entirely on the charity of the citizens of Assisi for a scrap of bread, and spent my time cleaning up neglected chapels. It was lonely at first, but I had never felt more free.

Calvin

How did relationships change after your success and the growth of your order?

White Male Guest

At first, my old friends thought I had completely lost my mind! They mocked me and threw mud at me when I begged in the streets. But soon, something amazing happened. Some of those very same wealthy young nobles and citizens of Assisi—like Bernardo da Quintavalle and Pietro Cattani—witnessed the pure joy I had in poverty. They ended up leaving their own fortunes behind to join me! We became a tight-knit fraternity of brothers.

Calvin

Did fame bring happiness?

White Male Guest

The fame of the order growing to thousands of brothers actually brought a lot of heavy responsibility and administrative heartache. True happiness never came from the fame; it came from the freedom of owning absolutely nothing. When you have no property, you have nothing to defend, nothing to worry about losing, and you can see God clearly in everything. That is where real joy lives.

Calvin

What was the downside of becoming famous?

White Male Guest

As our numbers grew into the thousands, we had to seek official approval from Pope Innocent III in Rome. The downside of the fame was that our radical way of living in total poverty started to make the high church officials very nervous. They worried we were too extreme or might become a heretical movement. It took a lot of careful navigating to keep our simple brotherhood from being swallowed up by complex church politics and regulations.

Calvin

What misconceptions did people have about you?

White Male Guest

People often thought we were just miserable, gloomy ascetics who hated life because we fasted and wore rags. But we called ourselves the "Jesters of the Lord!" We were joyful, we sang constantly, and we celebrated life. Another misconception is that I was just a sweet, passive nature-lover who talked to animals because it was cute. My love for nature wasn't a hobby; it was a profound reverence for the Creator. I saw every creature as a direct reflection of God's love.

Calvin

What was your darkest moment?

White Male Guest

My darkest moments came when the administration of the order grew so large that some of the brothers wanted to relax our strict rules on total poverty. They wanted to own buildings and books for studying. It broke my heart to see the initial, pure vision of absolute simplicity start to slip away, and I eventually had to step down from leading the order myself to just focus on prayer.

Calvin

What past regrets did you carry, that you spoke about?

White Male Guest

I deeply regretted how harshly I treated my own body in my younger years of ministry. I fasted until I fainted, slept on rocks, and pushed myself to total physical exhaustion. Later in life, I actually apologized to my body, which I affectionately nicknamed "Brother Ass," for being so rough on it and neglecting its basic needs.

Calvin

What’s something people misunderstood about your life?

White Male Guest

A lot of people later on painted a picture that my life was easy and romantic—just walking through sunny fields preaching to birds. They miss the grit, the mud, the sweat of carrying heavy stones, the long nights of freezing in the winter elements, and the intense spiritual battles we fought daily. It was a beautiful life, but it was a hard-fought one.

Calvin

Tell me about a time when everything went wrong and how did you handle it?

White Male Guest

During the Fifth Crusade, I decided to go to Egypt to try and bring peace. I walked right into the enemy camp to meet with the Sultan, Al-Kamil. Everything could have gone horribly wrong—I easily could have been executed on the spot. Instead of acting out of fear or aggression, I approached him with complete humility, respect, and love. We ended up having a profound, peaceful dialogue about faith, and he let me return safely. Humility opens doors that force never can.

Calvin

Did fame and fortune change your life?

White Male Guest

Fortune changed my life when I walked away from it! Giving up my inheritance is what truly allowed me to live. And as for the fame that followed, I tried my best to use it as a tool to direct everyone's eyes away from me and straight toward the beauty of God.

Calvin

What personal battles were you fighting privately?

White Male Guest

I fought severe physical illnesses for the last twelve years of my life. I contracted a terrible eye infection while in Egypt that left me nearly blind, and I suffered from a severe form of malaria that gave me agonizing chills, dropsy, and internal pain. Keeping a joyful spirit while my body was failing was a constant, private battle.

Calvin

Who had the biggest influence on your life?

White Male Guest

Beyond the Lord Himself, it was the poor and the suffering. Every beggar I met taught me how to be humble. Every leper I embraced taught me how to love without boundaries. They were my greatest teachers.

Calvin

What was life like in your final years?

White Male Guest

They were very quiet, reflective, and painful, but deeply spiritual. Because of my failing eyesight, I spent a lot of time secluded in dark rooms or rustic hermitages, like the one at La Verna. It was during this time of intense physical suffering that I received the stigmata—the mystical manifestation of the wounds of Christ on my own hands and feet. Even in the darkness, I managed to compose my poem, the "Canticle of the Creatures," praising God for Brother Sun and Sister Moon.

Calvin

What were you working on in your career before you passed away?

White Male Guest

I was focused entirely on writing and solidifying the Rule for our order to ensure the brothers stayed true to the path of humility and poverty long after I was gone. I was also continually teaching the friars through my own example of enduring illness with patience and joy.

Calvin

When and where and how did you pass away, and how old were you?

White Male Guest

I passed away on the evening of October 3, 1226, at the Porziuncola, the tiny chapel outside Assisi that I loved so dearly. I was only about 44 or 45 years old, and my body finally succumbed to the years of severe illness, malaria, and exhaustion.

Calvin

What’s a random fact about you most people have never heard?

White Male Guest

Most people don't know that I am responsible for the very first live Nativity scene! In 1223, in the town of Greccio, I wanted people to really feel and see the poverty of Christ's birth. So, with the Pope's permission, I set up a manger with a real, live ox and donkey in a cave, and we celebrated Mass right there. People loved it!

Calvin

That is amazing, I had no idea you started the nativity tradition! What’s the craziest rumor ever told about you?

White Male Guest

There was a rumor that I was so holy that wild animals would actively seek me out to protect me from danger, or that the birds would form the shape of a cross in the sky when I finished preaching to them. While I did have a wonderful, peaceful connection with creatures, some of the stories grew quite grand over the centuries!

Calvin

What was your most unique habit?

White Male Guest

Whenever I would find scraps of parchment or paper on the ground with writing on them, I would carefully pick them up and save them. Even if it was a secular document, I insisted on treating written words with respect because the letters could potentially spell out the holy name of God.

Calvin

What was your favorite food?

White Male Guest

I didn't eat much luxury food, of course, but I did have a weakness for a particular almond confectionary treat made with honey, almonds, and sugar that a dear noblewoman friend of mine, Lady Jacoba, used to make for me in Rome.

Calvin

Did you have a favorite restaurant?

White Male Guest

Oh, no restaurants for me, Calvin! My "favorite restaurant" was whichever doorstep gave us a stale piece of crust or a bowl of vegetable scraps when we went out begging for the day.

Calvin

What was your favorite book?

White Male Guest

The Gospels, without question. Specifically, the accounts of the life, poverty, and passion of Jesus. I didn't need a massive library; that single story was enough to fill my entire life.

Calvin

Did you have any known rivalries?

White Male Guest

My only real rivalry was with the spirit of greed and pride within myself. I didn't hold rivalries with other people. Even when bishops or local authorities opposed us, we responded with obedience and kindness until they eventually came around.

Calvin

Tell us a story nobody talks about.

White Male Guest

People love the story of me taming the Wolf of Gubbio, but they often forget how it happened. The townspeople wanted to kill the wolf because it was attacking them. I didn't use weapons; I went out, spoke to the wolf as "Brother Wolf," and discovered he was just incredibly hungry. I made a pact between the wolf and the town: if the citizens promised to feed the wolf every day, the wolf would stop attacking them. And it worked! Peace comes from addressing the root of the hunger, not just fighting.

Calvin

That is an awesome lesson. What’s your funniest behind-the-scenes moment?

White Male Guest

When the first few brothers and I went to Rome to see Pope Innocent III, we looked so ragged, dirty, and unkempt from our travels and manual labor that the Pope initially told me to go away and find some pigs to preach to instead, because we looked like we belonged with them! So, I literally went and rolled around with some pigs, came back covered in mud, and said, "Most Holy Father, I have obeyed your command." He laughed so hard at my persistence that he finally sat down to listen to us.

Calvin

That is hilarious! Did you ever prank someone?

White Male Guest

We didn't play tricks to be mean, but we used holy humor to teach lessons. Once, a brother was feeling very proud of a beautiful cell he had built to sleep in. While he was away, I climbed up onto the roof and started tearing the thatch off, pretending to be a thief, just to remind him that we shouldn't get attached to earthly buildings! He learned his lesson very quickly.

Calvin

What was the most outlandish purchase you made?

White Male Guest

Back in my wild youth, before my conversion, I bought the most magnificent, expensive suit of armor and a lavish cloak to go to war, intending to show off to the entire town. It cost a small fortune. But on my way to the battlefield, I met a poor, shivering knight who had fallen on hard times. I ended up giving the entire expensive outfit to him. It was a terrible financial investment, but a wonderful spiritual one!

Calvin

What advice would you give people chasing success?

White Male Guest

Do not let your possessions possess you. True success isn't measured by how much you gather, but by how much you are free to give away. Start by doing what is necessary; then do what is possible; and suddenly you are doing the impossible. Keep your heart humble, and remember to look for the beauty of the Creator in everyone you meet.

Calvin

Francis, do you have any closing remarks about the interview or the stories you shared that you would like to share with the listeners before we sign off?

White Male Guest

Just to remember that joy is a choice of the spirit, not a result of your circumstances. No matter how broken the world around you seems, or how ruined the "house" feels, you can always choose to bring love where there is hatred, and light where there is darkness. Thank you so much for having me on the show, Calvin. It has been a true joy to converse with you!

Calvin

And that wraps up another conversation from beyond the grave. Thanks for joining us on The Headstones and Microphones Podcast. Remember—legends may die, but their stories never do. Please help spread the word by sharing and following the pod.